ECC way of thinking - MAME and Subsystems

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wAw
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ECC way of thinking - MAME and Subsystems

Unread post by wAw » 11 Nov 2009, 22:26

I need a troubleshoot please :)

I've already ask for it in wrong topics (sorry ^^), so I make a new topic.
This is important to me to understand your logic to be able to help helpfully instead of giving you work.


Excuse me not to be an expert with DATs thing, I'm still mismatched with this...

1 - When you say : "I've updated mame from 0.134 to 0.135", you mean only mame superset ? Or also all related systems (under independant platform entry) that you tell me you use MAME DAT infos with ? (cps1, neogeo, namco...*not the mame's dropdown list*)

2 - What is the purpose of having this dropdownbox & the independant entry based on the same DATs infos, but not the same everything else (ECC-infos, images, user comments, roms...) ?


Here the things get tricky, I'll try to be explicit :)

3 - If I choose ECC's MAME entry, another dropdown menu appears at the top, where I can select systems that mame can handle. With what I've seen, I'm assuming this is a driver sorting.
Side to MAME entry, we can select CPS, Neogeo... but after the MAME entry roms's scan they're still empty (contrary to MAME entry and subsystems that are well filled), therefore you told me you use mame dat's infos to fill those systems.

If I do scan the mame folder under the CPS-2 independant entry, I've got the warning "Are you sure that it only contains CPS2 roms ?", this make me not scan the MAME folder until yesterday, because to me it means that ECC needs independant folder, I was wrong (but perhaps a more explicit warning would be nice), but at the end, no game are added, so perhaps I was right (with what follow, i think so) ? This was after scanning the same folder under mame entry (which fill right the mame games).

I thunk that I've break ECC so I unrar a fresh 1.0 version, do the updates (but not the WIP), and scan the CPS-2 entry with the MAME roms folder, it gives me 8205 entry under CPS2, with all games recognized but a lot of blanks one too (7900+, yes...).
I then do a scan under the MAME entry with the same folder, import the data from online, and finally have no rom recognized at all, it says that there was no change in roms.

I cleared everything and scan the mame entry again, then I have the MAME correct, then rescan the CPS-2 entry with mame folder, it tells me that all 8205 roms aren't changed.

So, what is ECC logic about that ?
What ECC wait for ? about MAME entry and the independant entry that mame handle (not the dropdown mame driver list) ?


Outside my question, perhaps a bug ?
It looks like a folder defined for 1 ENTRY (MAME, ATARI ST, CPS-1, VIC20...) can't be used twice...


Hope I was enough clear :)
Take your time, i'm really not in a hurry, but I really like a clear answer to that, I like to understand things :)

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Re: ECC way of thinking - MAME and Subsystems

Unread post by Phoenix » 09 Jan 2010, 12:52

wAw wrote:1 - When you say : "I've updated mame from 0.134 to 0.135", you mean only mame superset ? Or also all related systems (under independant platform entry) that you tell me you use MAME DAT infos with ? (cps1, neogeo, namco...*not the mame's dropdown list*)
Basicly when the MAME DAT is updated (the big 16MB file) i'll also update any other arcade (multifile) platform that hasn't a special DAT download on logiqx (http://www.logiqx.com)
Here is an example how we create the little platform files from the MAME DAT file: http://ecc.phoenixinteractive.nl/viewto ... =54&t=2871
wAw wrote:2 - What is the purpose of having this dropdownbox & the independant entry based on the same DATs infos, but not the same everything else (ECC-infos, images, user comments, roms...) ?
?
wAw wrote:3 - If I choose ECC's MAME entry, another dropdown menu appears at the top, where I can select systems that mame can handle. With what I've seen, I'm assuming this is a driver sorting.
Side to MAME entry, we can select CPS, Neogeo... but after the MAME entry roms's scan they're still empty (contrary to MAME entry and subsystems that are well filled), therefore you told me you use mame dat's infos to fill those systems.
The MAME emulator emulates A LOT of systems, for some of those systems ECC has a platform, where you can load them into, this is because they have other or better emulators, so actually the MAME section is an OVERALL 'dump place' for your arcade roms, actually...in here are roms placed that do not have a platform in ECC, but will run in MAME.
wAw wrote:If I do scan the mame folder under the CPS-2 independant entry, I've got the warning "Are you sure that it only contains CPS2 roms ?", this make me not scan the MAME folder until yesterday, because to me it means that ECC needs independant folder, I was wrong (but perhaps a more explicit warning would be nice), but at the end, no game are added, so perhaps I was right (with what follow, i think so) ? This was after scanning the same folder under mame entry (which fill right the mame games).
Well i have to figure out what you mean exactly here, and how Andres programmed the Acrade section in ECC...maybe double roms are not parsed anymore when they are imported in other platforms??
wAw wrote:I thunk that I've break ECC so I unrar a fresh 1.0 version, do the updates (but not the WIP), and scan the CPS-2 entry with the MAME roms folder, it gives me 8205 entry under CPS2, with all games recognized but a lot of blanks one too (7900+, yes...).
I then do a scan under the MAME entry with the same folder, import the data from online, and finally have no rom recognized at all, it says that there was no change in roms.

I cleared everything and scan the mame entry again, then I have the MAME correct, then rescan the CPS-2 entry with mame folder, it tells me that all 8205 roms aren't changed.

So, what is ECC logic about that ?
What ECC wait for ? about MAME entry and the independant entry that mame handle (not the dropdown mame driver list) ?
The point here is that when you import MAME roms for your mame platform, ECC does not sort and import them them into the other platforms like CPS1/CPS2/NEOGEO, maybe this will implemented sometime...
wAw wrote:Outside my question, perhaps a bug ?
It looks like a folder defined for 1 ENTRY (MAME, ATARI ST, CPS-1, VIC20...) can't be used twice...
Yup, see above anwser ;)
wAw wrote:Hope I was enough clear :)
Take your time, i'm really not in a hurry, but I really like a clear answer to that, I like to understand things :)
Sure no problem, feel free to ask...
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wAw
Posts: 44
Joined: 03 Nov 2009, 17:31
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Re: ECC way of thinking - MAME and Subsystems

Unread post by wAw » 09 Jan 2010, 19:14

Thank you to put time in this tricky thing, tricky because all is related.

Your recently answer to this question here, that was about how to split a MAME's ROMs folder into separated folders in order to have 1 folder for 1 system (as shown in the spoiler below).

With this answer in this actual topic, you explain me how to do the same with the DATs files.

So, with the first topic, I was able to obtain 47 subfolders, here they are :
Spoiler: show
N:\emul\roms\mame

[.] [..]
[aleck64]
[alg]
[amigacd32]
[arcadia]
[atarisystem1]
[atomiswave]
[babyphoenix]
[chihiro]
[crystalsystem]
[decocassette]
[galaxygames]
[hikaru]
[hyperneogeo]
[konamiviper]
[maxaflex]
[megaplay]
[megatech]
[mpu4video]
[multiamenitycassette]
[multiamenitycassette2]
[naomi]
[naomi2]
[naomiairlinepilot]
[naomiferrarif355]
[naomigdrom]
[naomihod2]
[neogeo]
[nintendosupernintendo]
[pgm]
[playchoice10]
[psarcade95]
[psxacclaim]
[psxatari]
[psxatlus]
[psxvideosystem]
[standard]
[stv]
[superkanekonova]
[system573]
[systemgx]
[taitofx1]
[taitognet]
[tps]
[triforce]
[twinkle]
[zn1]
[zn2]
I used Clrmamepro, and define 1 folder for each system showed.

In this list we can see that there is a lot of systems that are already present in ECC's list, but with your explanation about 'how we create the little platform files', I find a lot missing.
You said it, they'll run under MAME even without platform (system) separate entry, but why don't make a complete list ?

My Second question was related to above, I meaned :
If when you update mame's DATs infos you only take what you show in your example in this topic,
- first, they are a lot of systems missing,
- second if i'm wrong about that and you update all MAME's related system under the ECC's MAME's dropdown list (at the top when selecting MAME) + the independant ECC's system entries (at the same level as MAME in ECC system's list), then :

What is the purpose of the whole below ?
- filling MAME dropdown list DATs info with MAME's superset DAT file,
- filling systems/platforms already included into MAME dropdown list,
- filling systems/platforms that are not in the dropdown but coming from MAME (ie: ZN1-ZN2),

It makes redundancy.

I see that you still don't get what I'm wondering about :D
Let's take a concrete example ^^ -> Capcom Play System 1, aka CPS1.
There is a MAME dropdown entry about this and also an entry at the same level as MAME entry.

If you use the same DATs infos to fill both, this is redundancy.

Also, talking about ECC's DATs infos, and remembering the above things, why are you using separate infos in the CPS1 dropdown list and in the one at the same level as MAME ?

This also makes redundancy.


And then comes the last thing, that you misunderstood I think, with all the above in mind, and knowing that the same folder can't be scanned or used by 2 ECC's platform :
you see that MAME's infos/roms aren't splitted/parsed and that it could come in a next future, but I see that if I've got a big mame folder with everything inside, I'm stuck :)

In clear, if I scan MAME's ROMs folder it will find me 8000+ ROMs, then, all platforms that you don't take care of are stuck in this folder without being able to be used by the other platform entries in ECC.


This lead me to why I'm wondering about this ^^
Because there is a why :)

I'm just coming to emulation scene again, and discover all those wonderfull games I spend uncountable money in. Beside, I like to share a lot, and for that I need to keep a MAME superset updated and in one huge (crazy?) folder.
But, I don't like the idea to have to do this each month, I mean re-move/split everything in order that all would be accessible from ECC. This in 2 purposes : the time required, the space needed ^^


This only concerns MAME because it is not a platform, but a bunch of plaforms.


Why don't re-think DB's system in order that the same folder can be scanned for more than 1 platform ?
Also, why don't use the same ECC infos (images, datas, ...) when we're talking about a unique platform (CP1 MAME's dropdown & CPS1 at same level as MAME's level) ?

If I were you, I leave alone this dropdown system and make only separated entries, and when it's coming from MAME's DATs infos, put an icon next to the Platform name. (the 'M' should be enough explicit). I said that because the dropdown list isn't explicit (not all systems), and because there is redundancy between this dropdown and the main list.

This way you make 1 rock 4 hits, reducing redundancy in ECC's infos (screenshots...) and in DATs infos, and remove weight from user's shoulder by letting them scan MAME's folder and obtain all related subsystem in separate platform entries, this would also lead in more clarity for users :)

This is obviously only my point of vue, also I know that's it's a lot of work to modify this, and also ECC is still one of the best frontend I've got into my hands ;)

As english says, keep up the good work, and thank you !

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