Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

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cobylain
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Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by cobylain » 09 May 2008, 22:02

[original post from topic: ....are there more extensions to add?..., due to PM's made a seperate topic]

Hi Phoenix,

these file-extensions are missings for microbee
(the extensions bin and rom are not in use, i don't have found them in use by the named
emulators, rom-files only used as bios-roms and so not needed as file extension):


Official file-extensions for microbee as follows but cannot directly used by the named emulators:

DS40 or D40
Microbee 40T DS DD raw disk image (SBC)

SS80 or S80
Microbee 80T SS DD raw disk image (CIAB)

DS80 or D80
Microbee 80T DS DD raw disk image (Modular)

DS82 or D82
Microbee 80T DS DD raw disk image (Dreamdisk)

DS84 or D84
Microbee 80T DS DD raw disk image (PJB)

In use by nanowasp:

DSK is the mostly used file-format for the emulator "nanowasp". I think no other file
extensions needed for this emulator. It recognises the disks by the format for example"...DS82.DSK"
This emulator is not yet perfect so not many programs can be run with it. When inserting a disk this
can only be done on drive b because drive a uses the system-disk and should not be removed or the
emulation cannot work.


In use by uBee512 - which is the very better emulator due to compatibility-reasons:

Now it becomes a little complexity. The file-extensions which needed by uBee512 needs additionally
the underscore-sign, for example: "ds84.dsk_"
The underscore-sign is needed, if not used, the emulator will not start the disk and comes up with
error message that the disk-image must be write protected.
The emulator uBee512 needs write-protected disks and the write-protection of windows is not enough
for this emulator. Believe me, i've tried out a many variations before i've found out the correct
working of this emulator. I've found not an easier way - if there is any - i would really know.

Final word:

There are two possibilities i think:

1. Insert both really needed file extensions DSK and DSK_ for the emulatores and all
the original extensions if new emulatores comes up.

2. Insert only the extension DSK and the original extensions and then write a script especially for the
emulator uBee512 to insert the underscore after the filename automatically.
The emulator uBee512 recognises additionally files like D84_ so a script should work perfectly
if all original file extensions inserted and only the underscore is generated additionally.
The bigger problem is the automatically start of programs because most disks have many of single programs on it and startup is a complex process.

Additional information:
there are many other files out there like .MWB-Files. These Files cannot directly used by any of
these emulators and must be copied to disk-images (DSK) and then works. The emulators have utilities
on board to fit these process.

If there any questions open please let me know.

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Phoenix
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by Phoenix » 13 May 2008, 22:41

[original PM from staticmem]
staticmem wrote: Hi, I am the author of the uBee512 Microbee emulator project, I discovered your ECC project and forum while doing a google search for anything Microbee related. I downloaded the windows version of ECC to try and see that you have added "Applied Technology" computers section.

I configured ECC to start uBee512 but was unable to pass any options to it from ECC. uBee512 is command line and configuration script driven.

I would like to see uBee512 added to ECC. Can you tell me what sort of options I would need to implement? I plan to add an option so that individual files on disk images can be started or even upload the game based on parameters received.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ubee512/

Regards
Stewart Kay
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by Phoenix » 13 May 2008, 22:42

Hi Stewart,

Yes, we added Microbee to ECC a while ago...it's from Applied Technologies, who started to build this machine right?

Quote:
MicroBee (Micro Bee) was a series of home computers by Applied Technology, later known as MicroBee Systems.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroBee

oops i see i have to change 'technologies' into 'technology'

There was also a problem starting rom from commandline with ubee512, maybe you can help us out? you can view the topic over here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1731&start=30 in the thread from COBYLAIN explains we need a script to run roms with your emulator...because of the underscore '_' in the extension, this is no problem and i'll add ubee512 emulator to the emulator list.

Regards, Phoenix
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by Phoenix » 13 May 2008, 22:43

Steward,

ECC is a commandline parameter base frontend, but also capable of executing advanced scripts.

Normally on 'clean' settings ECC runs the emulator like:

Code:

Code: Select all

emulator.exe "romfile.ext"
But Andreas made it somewhat configurable with the %ROM% thingy you see in the configscreen of ECC, so that simple parameters can be added to the commandline.

Regards, Phoenix
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by Phoenix » 13 May 2008, 22:44

[original PM from staticmem]
staticmem wrote:Hi Phoenix,

Yes, you may post that information if you like.

Applied Technology was the name of the company even before they designed the Microbee. They made S100 systems. Some time after they released the Microbee model they changed the name to Microbee Systems.

The '_' underscore in the image names may be causing some confusion (I have edited my doc). uBee512 can use it's own disk image code or the built in LibDsk library. The '_' is not used by LibDsk. It simply tells uBee512 that it is not permitted to write to that image. It should not be an issue and can be ignored.

To start ubee512 install the latest 2.5.0 package and do the following:

Grab these and place in the ubee512\roms directory:
-charrom.bin
-rom1.bin

Unzip this to the ubee512\disk directory:
-pjb-2.2p-17_05_1988.zip

>ubee512 -a pjb1.ds84

A standard 128K system is here, it requires the files to be set as read/write after unzipping to work (This may have been a problem when tried before):

-mbee128k-os.zip

Regards
Stewart
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by cobylain » 14 May 2008, 20:15

Hi,

now i understand. :yes_head:

I've just downloaded the new version V2.6.0 of uBee512 and installed. To test it out i've used also the named disk "pjb1.ds84" and another one with some games on it for the second emulated diskdrive.

I've tried this - before writing my first entry - via a batch-file to load the emulator with the needed extensions. Not knowing that the disks must be in place directly in the disks-directory of uBee512 and not in the main directory of uBee512 i become the error message that they should not be write protected. By don't understanding these exception message i've tried many things out. I think the message could be improved and saying that "disk not found" or so?

Now with a little more knowledge i've set the disks in the disks directory and all runs fine for me. My second try to load disks from other directory-locations also succeeded when i give the complete path before the filename.


ubee512 -a pjb1.ds84 - it's the system disk with improvements?


Maybe it makes sense to give the parameter "-a pjb1.ds84" as a standard parameter to uBee512 and for inserted new disks use the second drive. This is done by using the -b parameter with following path and filename of a disk.


Thanks for the additional informations and hope we can have a automatic script for using the microbee-disks in ecc.


Regards
cobylain

staticmem
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by staticmem » 15 May 2008, 00:26

cobylain wrote:I've tried this - before writing my first entry - via a batch-file to load the emulator with the needed extensions. Not knowing that the disks must be in place directly in the disks-directory of uBee512 and not in the main directory of uBee512 i become the error message that they should not be write protected. By don't understanding these exception message i've tried many things out. I think the message could be improved and saying that "disk not found" or so?
By default uBee512 looks for files in the default areas where the emulator is installed, this includes the disks, roms, tapes directories, etc. To use the current directory you have to use './' (Unix) or '.\' (Windows) before the file name. I've made a note to improve this by first searching the current then the default directories.
cobylain wrote:ubee512 -a pjb1.ds84 - it's the system disk with improvements?
It's a 3rd party system and is now in the PD, takes advantage of a DRAM 512K memory upgrade and has some other nie features about it.

When I know a bit more about ECC and how it all works I will add the required options to uBee512 to make it able to take a program from the host and copy it up to a CP/M drive and run it. If I'm understanding correctly you should be able to have a small configure script entry for each game (ROM) with customized joystick settings along with some other things that you pass for each game ?

Regards
Stewart

cobylain
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by cobylain » 15 May 2008, 20:09

Hi Stewart,

yes my wish is to have a ecc-script which is capable to get the programs on microbee-disks automatically started in ECC. Sorry, i'm actually not able to write scripts by myself, hopefully ecc-developers can help us to define the needed code-settings in a ecc-script.

I think the best way to do this is to give them the complete overview of loading progams with the microbee, especially with uBee512. Can you give them the informations step by step - means the complete task to load a program and starting it in uBee512? So it should become possible to insert these steps in a needed ecc-script.

And thanks for your given informations to my questions before. :thumbsup:


Regards
cobylain

staticmem
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by staticmem » 15 May 2008, 23:04

cobylain wrote:yes my wish is to have a ecc-script which is capable to get the programs on microbee-disks automatically started in ECC. Sorry, i'm actually not able to write scripts by myself, hopefully ecc-developers can help us to define the needed code-settings in a ecc-script.

I think the best way to do this is to give them the complete overview of loading progams with the microbee, especially with uBee512. Can you give them the informations step by step - means the complete task to load a program and starting it in uBee512? So it should become possible to insert these steps in a needed ecc-script.
At the moment there is no way to tell uBee512 what single program to load or even start one that may be on a disk image from the command line. This is something I had planned to add anyway but if I know how ECC works in more detail with scripts I can tailor some options to suit. If ECC developers can point me to where I can read about this I'll have a look ;)

Basically what needs to happen is this: Provide an option that tells uBee512 what file from the host needs to be brought over, a special CP/M program that auto runs can then copy the program across to a CP/M RAM drive. Provide an option that tells the emulator how to start the program, typically this would be one of 3 types:

1) A MWB Basic program that loads up under BASIC.
2) A CP/M COM program.
3) A Machine code program that loads up under BASIC.

Type 3 would require another option to be passed containing the load address.

Ideally a script that contains an entry for each game would be nice, can this be done or is there an alternative that is already in place?

Cheers
Stewart

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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by Phoenix » 15 May 2008, 23:10

Hi Stewart,

I cannot test ubee512 at the moment i don't have the biosses *ouch*, nor some roms to test, so i have to look around here and there, when i have stuff running i'll try to create a script for this, and then i can tell you things for starting roms..., for now i can't do anything without proper software...

Stay tuned!
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by Phoenix » 15 May 2008, 23:15

So actually, if i am not mistaken the problem here is that ubee512 loads a virtual disk image with multiple games on it??
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by staticmem » 15 May 2008, 23:41

Phoenix wrote:So actually, if i am not mistaken the problem here is that ubee512 loads a virtual disk image with multiple games on it??
Yes, that's how it is used now, but the ideal way would be to have one disk image that contains a system and BASIC(s) and a utility program that handles bringing across the game.

Stewart

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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by staticmem » 16 May 2008, 00:28

Thinking about it a little more there is no reason why uBee512's configure script can't contain all the required game entries and start up information, the configure script already allows customized start up sections.

Would be as easy as:

ubee512 gamex

So the problem now is just for me to add the other emulator specific options which I will do :)

Stewart

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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by staticmem » 21 Jun 2008, 14:06

I have implemented some new features in the development of uBee512 to allow games to be started as a file, games do not need to reside on a disk image. This all works when started from a command line and independent of ECC.

Now I need to know how I scan all these games as if they were ROMs in ECC, the problem is the games can have all sorts of different file name extensions, like .MWB, .BEE, .COM or anything for that matter. How do I tell it to scan ALL files in the 'ROMs' folder? The DSK, D40, D80 extensions are not applicable for what we are trying to achieve here.

Stewart

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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by Phoenix » 21 Jun 2008, 16:17

staticmem wrote: Now I need to know how I scan all these games as if they were ROMs in ECC, the problem is the games can have all sorts of different file name extensions, like .MWB, .BEE, .COM or anything for that matter. How do I tell it to scan ALL files in the 'ROMs' folder? The DSK, D40, D80 extensions are not applicable for what we are trying to achieve here.

Stewart
Hi Steward,

We can insert more extensions into ECC for this platform, tell us ALL extensions there should be, and wich one(s) can be removed!
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by staticmem » 21 Jun 2008, 16:55

Hi Phoenix

The extensions you have now are fine for disk images. What uBee512 needs (and for other emulators possibly) is a way for any file name extension to be allowed. The filenames uBee512 uses may have any extension name, there are no standard name types. Should ECC even be concerned with extension names? Perhaps there is a good reason why it has been set up that way?

The only way I could make this work as it stands is to create fake file names like 'defender.dsk' so that they are found in the ROMs search but this would just be a temporary work around to the problem.

Is there some way I can tell ECC to match ANY file name types during the ROMs scan process?. I pass the %ROM% to the emulator with the extension missing and it will run the game file based on an entry match in the uBee512 script.

Stewart

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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by staticmem » 22 Jun 2008, 05:03

The main file types that I would like to see added are these:

COM, SUB, MWB, BAS, BIN, DAT, BEE, Z80, MAC

I think the above would cover most situations.

I tried to add some of the above to ecc_mb_user.ini at the end of the file...
[EMU.bee]
[EMU.mwb]

I was surprised not to see these not appear in ECC though.

How can I had file types myself for testing purposes?

Stewart

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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by Phoenix » 22 Jun 2008, 08:56

Hi Steward,

To add these extensions search for a file called 'ecc_mb_system.ini', you can find this in:

0.9.7 series: ecc-system\conf\ecc_mb_system.ini
0.9.8 series: ecc-system\system\ecc_mb_system.ini

change this content:

Code: Select all

[EXTENSIONS]
dsk = 1
d40 = 1
ds40 = 1
s80 = 1
ss80 = 1
d80 =1
ds80 = 1
d82 = 1
ds82 = 1
d84 = 1
ds84 = 1
[PARSER]
FileParserGeneric#mb = dsk, d40, ds40, s80, ss80, d80, ds80, d82, ds82, d84, ds84
into:

Code: Select all

[EXTENSIONS]
dsk = 1
d40 = 1
ds40 = 1
s80 = 1
ss80 = 1
d80 =1
ds80 = 1
d82 = 1
ds82 = 1
d84 = 1
ds84 = 1
com = 1
sub = 1
mwb = 1
bas = 1
bin = 1
dat = 1
bee = 1
z80 = 1
mac = 1
[PARSER]
FileParserGeneric#mb = dsk, d40, ds40, s80, ss80, d80, ds80, d82, ds82, d84, ds84, com, sub, mwb, bas, bin, dat, bee, z80, mac
Can i add these extensions in a next 0.9.8 update?, or are these just for testing?
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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by staticmem » 22 Jun 2008, 09:12

Thanks Phoenix, I'll try that out and see how it goes, those extensions will be the ones needed to be added but there may be another one or two types to add as well. I'll do a check on on all the games I have and see what others need adding. I'll post back later.

Stewart

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Re: Getting microbee started with ECC using ubee512

Unread post by staticmem » 22 Jun 2008, 10:50

Happy to say it's all working now :yes_head:

Could these extensions also be added?:

MCL, ML, and Z

Also some files do not have extensions so they need to be added too, how do I allow files with no extension to be scanned?

Below is the 'ecc_mb_user.ini' file (0.9.7 series) configured for use with uBee512 (when v2.7.0 is released), you may like to use some of the settings as default in the next ECC release.

Stewart

Code: Select all

[PLATFORM]
active = "1"
eccident = "mb"
name = "Applied Technologies Microbee"
category = "Computer"
[EMU.GLOBAL]
active = "1"
path = "C:\Programs\ubee512\ubee512.exe"
param = "--config=games.ini %ROM%"
escape = "1"
win8char = ""
filenameOnly = "1"
noExtension = "1"
executeInEmuFolder = ""
enableEccScript = ""
enableZipUnpackActive = ""
enableZipUnpackSkip = "1"
[EMU.ALT1]
active = ""
path = ""
param = "%ROM%"
escape = "1"
win8char = ""
filenameOnly = ""
noExtension = ""
executeInEmuFolder = ""
enableEccScript = ""
enableZipUnpackActive = ""
enableZipUnpackSkip = "1"
[EMU.ALT2]
active = ""
path = ""
param = "%ROM%"
escape = "1"
win8char = ""
filenameOnly = ""
noExtension = ""
executeInEmuFolder = ""
enableEccScript = ""
enableZipUnpackActive = ""
enableZipUnpackSkip = "1"
[EMU.bas]
[EMU.bee]
[EMU.bin]
[EMU.com]
[EMU.d40]
[EMU.d80]
[EMU.d82]
[EMU.d84]
[EMU.dat]
[EMU.ds40]
[EMU.ds80]
[EMU.ds82]
[EMU.ds84]
[EMU.dsk]
[EMU.mac]
[EMU.mwb]
[EMU.s80]
[EMU.ss80]
[EMU.sub]
[EMU.z80]

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